Yin and Yang for Jagr an Co.

They all say they want to come back to New York next season. But there's a hitch to each and every one. Four of the Rangers' five high-profile free agents in waiting swore allegiance to the Rangers, but there's more to each of their stories than just that. In some cases it's money, in some cases it's happiness, in some cases it even boils down to whether the Rangers want them back or have the cap room for them.

"I bleed blue and red," Sean Avery said, swearing up and down and left and right that he wants to remain a Ranger. "I feel like walking into Madison Square Garden is a privilege and I think it's an honor to play for Mr. Dolan and to put the Ranger jersey on. I love the city and I love the fans. I'd be lying if I didn't say that that wasn't the case. New York is a place I want to play. I love the team, the fans and the organizations, so I want to come back."

But for Avery it will boil down to money. He knows what he wants and he knows he can probably get it somewhere, so it's a matter of whether GM Glen Sather is willing to give it to him. "My side has an idea what my value is," he said, as he has in the past. "Of course I want to resolve it. [But] I'm not the guy who signs players. I wish I could be on both ends, but I don’t think the league would allow that. They won’t allow T-shirts, so they won’t allow a player [to be] a GM. It's always unexpected what can happen when you wait and the door gets open. That’s the interesting idea as well.”

Brendan Shanahan said he knows he can keep playing. "The first thing you have to decide is, can you, are you physically able to," he said. "That part, to me, has been answered. It's about knowing that number one you can do it and knowing number two that the team that you play for is going to be a better team because you're on it. I definitely feel today that at this point, I definitely know that I can still be a productive player in the NHL and certainly somebody who contributes to a team's wins in a variety of ways. If I didn't feel confident, I would make my decision to stop playing today."

But he recognizes that it might have to be in a lesser role that in the past. "Sometimes the biggest thing you can do for your team is step back," he said. "It’s happened to me this year. Whatever they’ve ever asked me to do I have always done with great determination. I’ve never been a player to complain. I've always done what the coaches have asked me to do. I’ve always tried to set that example. I feel the eyes of our younger players on me, I feel a great responsibility in being a professional with all things that come toward me in an NHL season." There was, however, some question during the season whether Shanahan defied Tom Renney in continuing to play through injuries, which are now being blamed for his decline in the playoffs.

The Rangers remain his first choice. "If I decided to play, this would be my first choice," he said. But that's a far cry from the note sounded a year ago when he said he would only play for the Rangers or else choose to retire. Last year, he knew the Rangers wanted him back in his usual capacity, he knew it was his own decision to keep playing or retire, and his concussion was the biggest factor in that decision. This time, he cannot be as sure that the Rangers will want him back in a lesser role -- or perhaps more saliently, will be able to pay him what he would want to be in that lesser role when there are young guys making the league minimum who could do it too.

Then there is Jaromir Jagr. "First I am going to talk to the Rangers, that's the number one option for me," Jagr said after keeping mum on the subject all season long -- and one still has to wonder why he would have to keep that a secret. "I don't like to change. I feel very comfortable here, with all the people around this organization who are nice to me. They gave me a chance to show everybody I still can play hockey. Everybody doubted me when I was playing in Washington, for whatever reason. The Rangers gave me a chance and believed in me."

But there are promises he has to keep, and maybe that's what he was keeping under his belt. His promise to return to Omsk has been rehashed already, and it didn't come up again after the season's end. But perhaps Jagr's big secret was his promise to his father to return to Czech to help open his new arena two years hence. "I don't think I would sign longer than two years just because of my dad," he said. "He asked me to come home. He did. In two years. He wants me to come back. He's helping to build a new arena there and he wants me to be there. But you never know. I believe, if I would say I'm coming a little later, he wouldn't mind. But he wants me to be there."

The two-year window wouldn't hurt his chances to return to New York, it can only help -- because of CBA considerations, Sather has been loathe to sign over-35 players for more than one-year, and an incentive-laden one-year contract would help the Rangers manage the salary cap. But Jagr hinted that he might want to test the waters anyway. "I’ve never been a free agent in my life," he said. "Maybe I would like to find out what’s my price. Just to find out. All I hear from all the media is, 'He’s done.' Maybe the hockey world has a different opinion." He cracked wise about it too: "I don’t know if I want to find out. Maybe I would find out something I don’t want to know. It could work both ways." But as we know, Jagr's jokes are sometimes just a smokescreen.

Finally, there is Martin Straka. Although still showing flashes of his speed and skill, Straka had trouble completing plays in the playoffs and all season long. So he, maybe even more than Shanahan, falls into the category of perhaps not being needed or wanted, or perhaps not capable of being fit under the salary cap even if he was needed and wanted. For him, it depends on whether his friend Jagr returns. "Obviously I'm going to want to talk to him," Straka said. "It's going to be a big decision on my mind whether he's going to be here or not. I don't know if he wants to talk to me, but I'm going to want to talk to him."

Stan Fischler continues his series of looking at who should be brought back at MSG.com, analyzing Jagr today after having taken on Shanahan yesterday. The Daily News has been running a poll to see who fans want back (or not). Newsday takes a closer look at Jagr, Slap Shot has more on Shanny. Prospect Park continues its series on the Rangers too. NHL.com talks to Mark Messier. And Rod Gilbert talks on camera about the Rangers to ReelSportsFan.com.

Comments

[i]

I lost a lot of respect for Stan F with his comments during the 1st round about Jagr. He says things just to make noise, and he roots for all 3 NY teams according to where he is that day.

[Jed Orts]

are they really going to resign roszival, and for that much money??

[paularensburg]

"I love the city and I love the fans. I'd be lying if I didn't say that that wasn't the case."

Uh, does this mean Avery is lying?

[paularensburg]

"There was, however, some question during the season whether Shanahan defied Tom Renney in continuing to play through injuries, which are now being blamed for his decline in the playoffs."

Assuming this is true, that says it all about coach Renney. As it also paints a gloomy picture for next season if Sather brings Shanahan back.

"This time, he cannot be as sure that the Rangers will want him back in a lesser role -- or perhaps more saliently, will be able to pay him what he would want to be in that lesser role when there are young guys making the league minimum who could do it too."

So, in other words, the choice for the Rangers is Shanahan at who knows what $ or the equivalent from a kid making the minimum. If the $$$ were reversed, and it was a kid at more than the minimum and Shanny at the minimum, the Rangers would clearly be better served going with the kid. Therefore, the opposite scenario makes less sense, yet we have this albatross of a notion hanging over our heads anyway. Just what we need: a 40 year old who doesn't answer to his head coach. Yeah, that's the guy we want to wear the C, or to have kids learning from.

[Pavel]

If the oldies want to come back, they must take discounts, end of story. This isn't pre-lockout NYR anymore.

[joeymole]

dubi - when are you gonna get an exclusive interview with sather???

doesn't sather who holds a lot of keys to this team's future makeup?! so it would be nice to have a wee bit of insight into what he and the team is thinking. can't sather do this without compromising his (behind the scene) negotiations? and is it true he's some sort of canadian real estate 'tycoon', as someone posted previously?? just wondering...

renney probably would speak more readily but i'm not sure we'd hear anything new from him. he's well versed on press etiquette, we always hear the usual sports cliches from him, for better or worse.

[NYRanger4Life]

For what it's worth... Sather lives on the upper east side.
I've run in to him on a number of occasions while walking my dog - and the only thing I can manage to say to him is "Good Season Glen!" or "Nice win last night Glen"
when all I want to say is "Your a P.O.S" or "Sign Avery and dont f**k up our team" or "What were you thinking bringing Backman to NY you MO-Ronnn!"

Dubi / Jess - I'd camp out on the UES looking for an exclusive if I were you!

[CraigZ]

No RFA's... Price is to high...I still believe in Pruch's so quit trading him...Sundin ain't going anywhere so forget about him... I still believe we fill in with the kids until thay prove they can't handle it then go the trade route to fill in...Z

[oleosmirf]

z

Sundin is a UFA so no trade is necessary.

[Mike]

The changes the rangers need to start with is in the coaches. The power play has been awful for three years now and someone in the coaching staff has to be held accountable. The last two off seasons Sather has brought different players to the team in hopes of improving the power play and nothing has changed. Renny needs to make a change with his assistants, and if he is not willing to, then he needs to go.

An effective power play is essential in todays NHL with the amount of penalties that are being called every game. 16.7% in the playoffs just doesn't cut it. Every team playing in the conference finals has at least a 20% pp. Who knows, a couple of pp goals against the Pens and the Rangers could have home ice against Philly tomorrow.

[NYRanger4Life]

Quotes from a 1992 S.I. article on Jagr

""Eric Lindros may be good player, but he is not 15 times better player than me," Jagr says passionately, his English rusty after a summer at home. The negotiations, apparently, are going badly. "——Patrick," Jagr says, referring to Penguin general manager Craig Patrick. "If they don't want to sign me, they don't need me. I don't consider Pittsburgh my team anymore. I love the fans; Pittsburgh has great people. But if they have no money, trade me. I want to be traded where there's beaches."

Hmm. Tampa Bay? San Jose? Los Angeles? Might be a long time between Stanley Cups, he is told, if Patrick accommodates him. "I have two Stanley Cup rings," Jagr shrugs. "I don't need more rings. I just need money and beaches and girls."

Great Read -- check it out

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1004325/1/index.htm

[jason]

Mike, how can you say the PP has been awful for three years now? In 05-06, we were ranked 13 with a 19% PP, in 06-07, we were ranked 8 with a 19.8% and this year, which was terrible, we were ranked 24 with a 15.3%.

And Dallas this year was ranked 22 with a 16.2% PP, not over 20%. Did you pull your numbers out of the sky?

[ant]

Mike

U became a fan 2 seasons ago???Year after lock out Rangers had oen of the best PPs Jags played a huge part in it but they was one of the best.Last seasonthey were still doing good with Nylander.This year they fell of so please dont say things that u not sure aboot.BTW Renney doesnt coach PP for your information.

Couple fo years ago Ducks made the finals with 1 PP goal so PP is important but u can survive it if u have good o and good Pk

[jason]

I apparently pulled my numbers out of the sky, those were only the home percentages. My fault.

[jason]

As for the real stats:

05-06: #8 18.9%
06-07: #8 18.5%
07-08: #22 16.5%

And as for Dallas this year: Ranked #13: 18.1%. Still not 20%. only 4 teams had over 20%, 3 are in the conference finals, Montreal is the team that isn't but interestingly enough, Tampa Bay was ranked #5 with a 19.3% PP and they were the worst team in the entire league this year.

[Chris QCT]

"This isn't pre-lockout NYR anymore."

Exactly. This is just what I was thinking. There is no sense in squeezing some of the older guys under the cap just to give them reduced roles. I'd love to have Shanny back, but not if he can't play. We have enough experience to not have to overpay what would be a 3rd-4th line player.

And Straka?!? Sorry, buddy. We just heard Avery say he bleeds Ranger blue. And you basically said "I bleed Jagr." If you don't want to play here and don't want to win here... BYE!

Save the money. You can sign Avery and still have money left over...

[rangerbill94]

Dawes/Dubinsky/Jagr (Satan)
Korpikoski/Gomez/Callahan
Prucha/Drury/Avery
Orr/Betts/Sjostrom

Hainsey/Rozsival
Tyutin/Girardi
Staal/Commodore

Lundqvist/Valiquette

Pock/Moore/Byers

Satan if we don't sign Jagr

[oleosmirf]

rangerbill

man if that's our forwards next year we will be in big trouble especially if Satan replaces jagr. Do you want Tavares that bad???

[Mark W.]

Miroslav Satan? Really? That sounds like a bust waiting to happen. Give me Jagr anyday.

[paularensburg]

Shanahan's avg time on ice for ten playoff games was 17:05 minutes. For the regular season it was just over 18:30. Yet we're being told he accepted a reduced role for the playoffs. Uh huh.

Among the forwards who played every po game Shanahan was tied for third worst in +/-. In the regular season only he (-2) and Drury (-3)were minus players among the forwards not on the vaunted "shutdown line".

[ant]

Yea ill agree with Oleo if those are our lines we are in deep doo doo

[ntb]

rb94,

Although, I'm not sure about the Satan signing, I think the Rangers personnel will look very similar to what you posted. Everyone is talking about signing all these UFA or RFA when, in reality, the current holes in the Rangers are just too big to be filled in 1 off-season.

[ant]

Did anybody else notice how Kopri had Pocks number 22

[oleosmirf]

ntb

very true but playing a bunch of rookies is not the answer and either is spending a lot of money on mediocre players. Thats why i said add Sundin for 1 year. Him and Jagr will provide enough offense to get into the playoffs and it will allow the Rangers to develop their prospects and leaves money left over to rebuld the blueline.

Win-Win anyway you look at it.

[the poster formerly known as John]

"Did anybody else notice how Kopri had Pocks number 22

Posted by: ant | May 08, 2008 at 05:24 PM"

Yup...that just made me think Pock's days as a Ranger are over.

Can Shanahan still score 25-30 goals and handle playing on the second line, the PP, and the PK? Then bring him back. If not, then bring him back as a 4th liner if he is willing to take a 4th liner's salary.

I love Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, and now Korpikoski as much as the next Rangers fan, but can these guys carry the team along with Drury, Gomez, and Avery? We still need a dominant scorer up front, even if Jagr does come back. Can Prucha get back to 30-goal form?

[rangerbill94]

oleo

Drury-Sundin-Jagr
Avery-Gomez-Callahan
Dawes-Dubinsky-Sjostrom
Korpikoski/Byers-Betts-Jessiman/Orr

Staal-Commodore
Tyutin-Girardi
Hainsey-Potter/Baranka

The above is from your post in the last thread.

The difference in your forwards and mine are Sundin, and Jessiman, while I have Prucha and Moore and on defense you have Potter and Baranka while I have Rozsival and Pock.

So are you telling me that Rozsival, Pock, Moore and Prucha make us a last place team while the addition of Sundin, Jessiman, Potter and Baranka propel us to a playoff spot? Sorry, I can't see 3 pure rookies helping that much or that Sundin, the next Shanahan, will put us over the top. We tried signing big name players at the end of their prime and it never worked out...it won't work out this time.

Your said as long as we have Jagr and Lundqvist, we'll be OK. Now, according to you, we will be fighting for the lottery. Please, give me a break with you hysterical, exaggerated predictions. The reason both of our lineups would work is because we added two pretty good defenseman. I kept the scoring one while you are going to rely on a rookie. My 7th D'man atleast has some NHL experience over 2-3 years while yours is another pure rookie. You added a proven center. I would not want to do that because I'm building long term, not just for next season. Further, you can't tell me that Jessiman will be better than Prucha or Moore.

[rangerbill94]

ntb

I'm not wanting to ditch JJ for Satan, no way!!! I'm just saying that if JJ and Sather can't get it together, then Satan could be a possible fit. His PP abilities are real!

oleo

Sundin makes $5.5MM I am sure he is not going back to TOR, after his trade-deadline antics. I'm not sure we can make Sundin work under the cap, especially if we sign Hainsey, Commodore and re-up Avery and JJ. Deferring salary is not a good idea, we have to pick up $2.8MM of Shanny's salary this year as it is.

ant and the "former John"

Pock never wanted the number 22, that was the only number available. I think he wanted 25, but that was Garth Murray. So maybe Prucha is out? I don't think we should read anything into numbers.

[CraigZ]

One thing has been bothering me...Is it Paula Rensberg or Paul Arensberg?????Z

[rcm]

the big problem used to be at goal. That has been solved. Now the big and pressing problem is the power play. Forget about signing anyone and just focus on remedying this. Once you have the players (or coaches)in place , then consider anyone else in the mix. By the way, there are no cap restrictions to picking a power play coach just as was done with the goalie coach.

[oleosmirf]

rangerbill

I dont know what antics you are talking about Toronto wanted to trade him and Sundin refused to waive his no trade clause b/c he didnt want to be a rental player. Toronto fans felt he was betraying the Leafs by not accepting a trade and doing what was best for the team. Crazy eh?

with a salary cap at around 56 million and as things stand now according to NHL numbers the Rangers have 33 million on the cap next season (which includes Shanny). Let's suppose Jagr takes a 5 mil cap hit next year, Avery 4 million, Dawes 1.5, Sjostrom 1.5, Commodore, 3 mil, Vally .75 mil, Hainsey 3.25 mil. That leaves the Rangers at 52 million dollars which would be 4 million under the supposed 56 million dollar cap.

Now to accomodate Sundin the Rangers would have to move Prucha and Backman who believe it or not make a combined 5 million next season and leave 9 million left over. Now let's suppose we sign Sundin for 6 mil. We still have 3 million left over to purchase the contracts of minor leaguers such as Potter, Baranka, Korpikoski, Byers etc.

Unless i made a mistake (which is very possible) my suggestion should be able to fit under the cap...

[Jed Orts]

anyone just see that penalty call on the Stars when they were already down one?
Good ol' Bill McCreary called a roughing penalty on the Stars after a little scrum. If anyone saw it, no way there should be a call on that play.

Absolutely pathetic.

[paul]

ranger fans tune in to versus for the horendous officiating goin on ight now....
guess who?
lol
put the tv on mute and watch the stace goodness in stuning hd...

[Andrea]

Got my Hockey News today. Scroll down their page to see their cover boy:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/

Wonder if it'll end up on a bulletin board at 4 Times Square.....

A pre-spleen article, don't read it for deathbed confessions :-)

[paul arensburg]

z

paul arensburg

[Jess]

I

He says things just to make noise, and he roots for all 3 NY teams according to where he is that day.

Totally agree as I remember the days when Stan would go out of his way to trash Messier and the Rangers.

Joeymole

dubi - when are you gonna get an exclusive interview with sather???

When Moses comes back and parts the Red Sea. Yours Truly is the only person since after the lockout to come close to any sort of interview with Sather.

The only reason I was able to get said interview is that at the time none of the Ranger PR people knew who I was or what I looked like and so I stood next to some Czech Reporters and jumped right in when they finished.

Had anyone known that I was writing for Dubi then I doubt I would have gotten anything more than a smile and a wave.

Sather will not talk to NYC reporters one on one (but if I attend the draft I am going to try to use a connection to get another).

renney probably would speak more readily but i'm not sure we'd hear anything new from him.

Do not blame Renney as many with the Rangers have to follow Cablevision policy which is "the media is always evil".

Tom Renney is a honest person who will answer questions as best as he can. I know firsthand that he is not as you are thinking.

NYRanger4life

Dubi / Jess - I'd camp out on the UES looking for an exclusive if I were you!

Let Dubi do it as it is a long drive from Oregon and I would rather spend my time covering the prospects.

Besides I doubt I could get Dubi to cover my expenses as I am still waiting for my holiday bonus.

Z

You are making sense today LOL that is scary.

One thing has been bothering me..

Oh too easy so I will let others crack the jokes today.

Oleo

No offense but I am glad to see you being down on the kids once again. Every time you have then the kids have proven you wrong so keep up being wrong as it means the future is brighter.

Unless i made a mistake (which is very possible) my suggestion should be able to fit under the cap...

No you did not make "A" mistake you made several. For starters you are assuming that a Sundin who has been used to being "the man" would be willing to accept a much lesser role with the Rangers at his age.

Your next mistake was going by actual salary instead of cap hit with Backman (2.3 mil hit based on average salary) and Prucha which is actually combined to be 3.9 million.

Sather will not pay Avery 4 mil (nor will anyone else) so lower him down to 3.2 mil while raising Hainsey up to 3 mil based on the lack of under 30 UFA defenders.

I would also pass on Commodore and sign Kurt Sauer.

Rangerbill

Further, you can't tell me that Jessiman will be better than Prucha or Moore.

Please let him say so because it means that Prucha and Moore will actually be better LOL.

Mike

See what Ant said

Ant

Say what you said to Mike again please.

[Jess]

Oh and for those of you wishing for changes in the Ranger coaching staff; Perry Pearn is lobbying for the Panther head coaching position and rumor has it that they will interview him.

[LI Joe]

Dubi or Jess - if Pearn goes does our goalie coach go too. I could be wrong but I thought he came from Ottawa as Pearn did.

re Shanny's bonus what is the story - how much hits this yr and how much hits next yr the below is hard to understand

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=NYR

[CraigZ]

Give Stan Fischler a break. His present gig(s) is a lot better than the one he had when he worked for the Long Island Press and we had to call in our roller hockey scores to him and give him a rundown of what happened so he could write about it...Z Another thing... if we sign JJ are we going to pay someone else more than him so they can 'compliment' him re: Sundin...Z

[Dubi]

Sorry, Slats ain't gonna give me no exclusive -- he won't even talk to us as a group, except on conference calls after the trade deadline. Even if he did talk to us, he wouldn't bare all his inner workings for all the world to see -- he's say the PC thing, just like Jagr, Avery, and Shanny did.

Scored my first goal in forever tonight -- I can't even remember when my last goal was. Whew! And I'm not even a defenseman.

[ant]

Dubi dont feel bad i have the same problem lol

[ant]

Jess i think he got the point lol

[i]

It seems to me Sather would offer Jagr the same $ he would have made if his option kicked in, just using the over 35 clause on a 1 year deal. Then he can go play in Omsk the next year , and go home after that. Whether Rozival or Straka get resigned probably has a lot to do with if Jagr is coming back. Shanahan probably wants to stick in NY, and Avery will find a way to stay. After that trying to figure out Sather's mindset is pure speculation. Not sure who the 5 are that Renney thinks have a shot next season. I'll defer to Jess on that. But what I don't get is how many people think Cherry is ready, can come next season, and place all this hype on this kid before he's even played a AHL game here. I think Sather might want to try one more time with Jagr & Shanahan, unless he's waiting to see what buttman's probable plan for the criebaby playpens is for next season. If the NHL is going to stack the odds , than he just needs help to fill the seats which either one alone should be able to do. There is much sense in signing all the vets if the refs are going to continue helping the wink and a nod nhl plan.

[cwgatti]

Why wouldn't Shanny want to come back? He robbed the Rangers this year. Highway robbery. That deferred contract is gonna hurt the NYR on July 1. He defied Renney by playing thru injuries? BS! He defied EVERYBODY by playing a year too long. I was pissing myself with happiness when we signed him originally, but I have lost a lot of respect for the guy since last summer. That Knuble injury was the end of the line for him. He got his money, and in fairness to the Rangers, he should sit down with Sather, watch replays of this season, and take veteran's minimum w/ a diminished role. . . . or hit the highway.

And for all of his shootout goal prowess, I would have preferred to keep Sykora.

[oleosmirf]

jess

just b/c I dont think Dawes and Callahan are ready to be top line guys doesnt make me down on the prospects in any way. The lines i suggested also had the addition of 5 more rookies, Byers over Hollweg, Potter over Mara, Baranka over Strudwick, Jessiman over Orr and Korpikoski over Prucha so that speaks for itself.

Also how is Sundin going to take a lesser role. He'd be top line center and would probably wear an A. It isn't in any way a knock on Dubinsky but Sundin got 36 goals and 46 assists least season on a bad team and imagine what he could do with Drury and Jagr on his wings. Sundin gives the Rangers the one thing they dont have and that is someone who can score more than Jagr. The addition of Sundin gives the Rangers a playoff caliber team, a much better PP and leaves more room for prospects to develop. It's a Win-Win situation anyway you look at it.

Also the amendments to my salary cap proposal that you made still allow the Rangers to sign all the players I suggested and actuslly gives them more room but i'm just curious why should the Rangers sign K. Sauer when he hasnt played more than 55 games since his rookie year in 02-03??

The only thing I could see would be instead of signing Commodore at around 2.5 the Rangers sign Sauer at 1.25 and another player similar to him for 1.25 for depth purposes??? Maybe i answered my own question??

[ntb]

re: Bonus Money

My understanding of the bonus money is that Shanahan's 2.8M bonus is applied to the upcoming year (08-09). So, even if the Rangers do not re-sign Shanny, his 2.8M will still be on the books for the 08-09 Season. NHLnumbers.com also has Staal and Girardi reaching small bonuses, so it looks like the total amount of 07-08 bonus money applied to the 08=09 cap will be around 3.1M.

[jason]

Dubi,

Congrats on the goal. Not everyone can be a superstar, every team needs it's role players.

[rangerbill94]

oleo

Didn't mean to just drop off last night, storms and computer problems.

First, the "antics" I referred to are as viewed by TOR management. I'm sure they don't appriciate Sundin's unwillingness to help out the team by accepting a trade which could bring more younger players into the TOR system. He, of course, has the right to do what he did, but he may have cost the team 2-3 years in the rebuilding plan. I doubt he will be re-signed.

With respect to salary and the cap, I do not want to get into that discussion because we can assume any salary and make our rosters work under an assumed cap. However, nhlnumbers estimates next seasons cap at $32MM and that is w/o Shanny, Dawes and Sjostrom. I believe Shanny's hit will be $2.8MM minimum, that is, if he doesn't play. If he plays then you need to add his salary to the $2.8MM! I'm not sure we could add a big name player, keep Jagr and improve our defense, all at the same time. But that is just the very reason I don't like to get into these kind of discussion. Until we get some of our UFA/RFA players signed up, we're just spitting in the wind.

[Jess]

Oleo

Also how is Sundin going to take a lesser role. He'd be top line center and would probably wear an A.

So you bypass Drury and Gomez to give him an "A"? You want to break up Dubinsky and Jagr despite the already proven chemistry?

Cmon kid what are you thinking here? Just because Sundin was a star in Toronto does not mean he simply inserts himself into the Ranger lineup as if he is a perfect fit.

Not to mention that with Straka gone the first choice should be returning Avery there as that line was solid.

Sundin is what 36 going to be 37? You think he is going to be worth signing for 6-7 million for 3 years? Oh no we do not go down this road again.

What exactly has Sundin ever won in terms of cups? NADA. Sorry he has put up numbers but he has never been a real leader.

I am with Rangerbill on his refusal to help out the Leafs by accepting a trade. That to me is putting his own interests first and Lord knows the Rangers have had their fair share of selfish players.

Oleo you have this really bad habit of not looking at how things really affect those around them.

Ever think that by signing a Sundin who is older than Straka (and gave the Rangers a discount twice) would offend Jagr?

Ever think that Jagr would despite just 70 points added 15 more in the playoffs would not like the Rangers playing more for a guy who has not played in the playoffs for some time?

What if Sundin and Jagr do not mesh? Then what do you do with Sundin?

Let someone else tie up their money.

As for the kids do not look at numbers as the Rangers have 3 scoring lines not 1,2,3 and Dawes/Callahan are already Top 6 forwards in quality of play.

Sorry Oleo but you might want to take a step back and try to look at your moves from a cause and effect POV.

Sundin does not address actual need and clearly at his age is too risky a gamble for top level money

[captjameson]

http://www.sportscity.com/NHL/NHL-Free-Agents-by-Position-2008

here's a link to the potential UFA list. Jagr's not on it i guess because his contract status was technically still up in the air till last sunday.

a PPQB (Redden, Campbell) is going to be awefully expensive. i say be patient and grow your own. trade talks will start with dubinsky, not sure the rangers will go there.

for solid d men i like commodore, montador, mezei, sauer, hainsey, streit. do you take a chance and try to turn Jeff Jillson's carreer around? he'd be a cheap puck mover and there's a lot of potential there...wouldn't mind keeping Mara if he makes less.

[cwgatti]

Let's not overrate the Dubinsky & Jagr "chemistry". It would be more accurate to say he fit better than any other center on the team. It is fair to say that a lot of Dubinsky's success is credit to Jagr. Dubinsky wasn't nearly as effective as Nylander on Jagr's line. There are a lot of people saying Jagr is finished, but I think it is more the people around him than anything else. And we should give credit to JJ. The guy gets fouled EVERY shift, every team in the league knows to key on him, and he played with guys that really are not up to par. Not to mention the ill-suited system.

Again, Jagr is the NYR Achilles heel. I still believe he is a top 10 player in this league. I am wondering about he fits in the NYR. . . . .

[And This One Will Last A Lifetime]

What's the lowdown on Huselius? Looks like he had one semi-breakout season (34G, 43A) and I remember hearing he was in Keenan's doghouse for part of this year. His PP numbers were good two years ago (14G, 20 A) but down this year (6G, 19A). Is someone like Dawes basically going to mimick his production and he'd be redundant on this team? It doesn't look like he'd be an upgrade in the size department though..

[onetimer]

way to go, Dubi! Can we see the goal on youtube? Could you please send your stick to the hockey hall of fame?!

[Jameson]

Would Sundin even wanna play here? He's played in Canada his entire career.

Oleo, I find it very contradicting that you see Sundin as a good signing yet if we spend money on a younger player like say Malone, who would probably still cost less than Sundin, and probably be just productive at this point, it's overpaying and it's a bad signing.

Jagr can't shoot, yet we're done with out him. I just don't get it.

[LI Joe]

ntb and RB - the bonuses only count toward next yr if there is no room in this yrs cap. and it's not an all or nothing thing. if there was $3 mm in bonuses and there is room for $ 2 mm then only the diff or $ 1 mm carries over. so my question is how much of the bonuses fit in this past yrs cap.

does anyone know.

[Jameson]

RE: Sundin refusing a trade. Think back to when Brian Leetch played his last year with us and was traded to Boston. Would any of us really think less of Brian Leetch if he had a no trade clause and refused to waive it that year? It's the same type situation. Sundin has been a Maple Leaf for a very long time, he made a name for himself there.

[Dubi]

My estimate (don't have exact numbers) was that up to $1.5 million of bonuses due Shanahan, Girardi, and Staal would have to carry over -- the result of this estimate matches what I've seen stated elsewhere, which is that the Rangers currently have a little under $20 million of room left under a $55 million cap.

[oleosmirf]

jess

First off let me tell you that

1) Sundin is a UFA and does not need to be acquired by trade
2) I stated earlier that i would only sign Sundin to a 1 year deal
3) Jess read this with an open mind and dont be so quick to reject it as I am thinking about the prospects as well.

In my opinion to get past the better teams in the league we need to have more than 1 goal scorer on this team and that spreading the wealth over 3 lines doesn't work when you have the players on defense like we did this season.

Why do I want Sundin?

Now first I have to give Dubinsky a lot of credit for playing well with Jagr as Gomez and his astronomically high contract couldnt do it. I expect Dubi to be a very very good player in the future but Sundin is still at 37 years old that much better.

I completely agree with everything cwgatti said about Jagr and I will also add that Drury and Sundin makes a much more dominant line than Dubinsky and Dawes/Avery/Straka.

I look at Sundin as a huge european player who like to cycle. Sounds familiar? Sundin plays a very similar style as play and between the 2 of them they will wear down the defense forcing them to double team and as result leaving Drury wide open in the slot. This move allows Drury to become the 30 goal scorer the Rangers expected him to be when they signed him.

Now this trickles down to the other lines as well. This allows Gomez on the 2nd line and Dubinsky on the 3rd line to get better matchups and be able to use their speed and great puck handling abilities to weave through the tired defense. Also the more time spent in the opposing teams zone the more penalties we draw and the less time we spend in our own zone. Plus Sundin would help our powerplay enormously.

Now with Drury on the wing, the Rangers allow young guys like Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Korpikoski, etc. to come into their own. Putting them on their own line gives the Rangers some much needed speed and instead of defering to Jagr, Gomez and Shanahan like they did many times last season. Since Sundin and most likely Jagr would only be here for that 1 season, it allows the young guys to develop chemistry together as in 09-10 the young guys will be ready to produce as top line players. The Rangers young players develop and at the same time they have enough firepower upfront to go far in the playoffs.

Sure, there is no gaurentee Sundin and Jagr will work but based on their history every indication says that they will and if for some reason they don't, Dubinsky goes back with Jagr and Sundin moves down in the lineup giving the Rangers 3 lines with an all-star leading each one.

And as for Jagr being insulted I doubt it, Sundin is a future hall of famer, i dont think he'd mind having him as a teammate plus I dont think Jagr would want to come back if he doesnt feel they have a chance of winning...

[Jameson]

Wanna know who hasn't really been mentioned by anyone here that's on that list? Josef Vasicek. We'd be stealing one of the islanders best goal scorers away from them, and adding a good threat that I think will probably go under the radar to some extent.

As far as defenseman. I know we're all scared of spending money on someone older, especially after Sandis Ozolinsh and Kasparitis. I had no idea Adam Foote was an UFA. Foote is a gritty kind of d-man that can probably contribute on offense. He may come cheaper than Nortstrom, Campbell, etc. because he had a down year statistically. He's the kind of defenseman that would clear out the crease though and he has the potential to be a very solid player from the point again like he was earlier in his career.

And how about Rob Blake for a 1 or 2 year contract? I'm not sure we could pry him away from LA, but he was still plenty productive last season. 9 goals, 22 assists in 71 games. Prior to that 14 goals and 20 assists in 72 games. And that was with the Kings... put him in our lineup and I think those numbers could be even better. And he could definitely QB the PP. And he can clear the crease. I think something we're lacking isn't just a d-man to QB the PP and to clear the crease, we don't really have veteran leadership on defense. Blake would provide that too. I k now it would cost money, but you have to spend to win. We can't be hesitant, and we need to spend big money on defense. Can't be scared to spend it because the guys that will get the money are old..

[oleosmirf]

jameson

do you honestly think Malone will get anything close to 27 goals and 24 assists playing with Gomez and Avery/Dawes instead of Crosby and Malkin???

I have no problem signing him just not at the 4+ million 5 year deal he is going to command. Would you commit that kind of money to a player who will get around 20 goals and 18 assists. I'd rather save the money and keep Shanny for another year and then see who's available next season

[rangerbill94]

Unfortunatly, Blake can't get out of his own way! Look, if the Rangers think they can afford it, use Hutchinson as the 7th D'man for PP play only. That means we only suit up 11 forwards, but that could work. If I'm going to pay big bucks, I want a guy who will be here for 3-5 years. We're not building for next season, we're building for the next 10 years!

[rangerbill94]

oleo

Lets stop sucking on nipple of a bottle full of skunky beer! We have to get past the old ones; Straka, Jagr, Shanny and eventually replace them. As long as they show they can still get it done, fine, keep them. Shanny was a shell of himself all season. Let him go. Straka has shown signs of getting older and we have some players who are beginning to nip at his heals. He sensed that, but couldn't get into the next level. He played well, but even he knows he can't do what he used to do. Let him go. As for JJ, well the playoffs showed me he has plenty left. My only question was and is..."Where were you during the regular season?" We can't have JJ playing only in the playoffs! I believe he is worth the risk, however I'm not sure Sather will give him a multi-year contract. The age 35 and CBA thing comes into play and JJ has to understand that. If he is looking for 2 years, then let him make that decision after 1 year.

Sundin would be a good fit if this team was on the verge of a cup. Not there yet, so Mats needs to find another home, IMHO.

Fix our defense. It wasn't bad this season, it just wasn't deep enough. Too much high salary for all to often poor play. And forget Blake, heck Rozsival had much better numbers than Blake had. And Rozi played with a team that was scoring goals at a rate that lava flows at.

[traviesso]

i think it's also important to note that jagr doesn't miss games physically, he may mentally at times though. sure, his shot was gone last year due to injuries but i think it will come around, plus despite the shot, when he brings his passion and dominance to the table he's the top player on the ice, therefore, the main arguement against him is his consistency, he even stated that he feels it's more important to play his best when it matters since it's a long season.

[kovazub94]

For people who advacate bringing Malone, they should do a comparison to Nylander & Straka stats from the last year and the year before that. These two years Jagr's numbers were somewhat comparable to Malkin's stats this year. As you can see both of these players were at a point per game clip. Malone's 50 + points this year are simply not good enough to command his signing by the Rangers at the $$ that he's expecting at that someone sure would be willing to pay him.

With respect to Shanahan, his current situation reminds me of the last years of MM with the Rangers. As you remember Messier would also get his 20 + goals and about 40 - 50 points. However, his production was mostly generated in October through December, and after that (when each point would become so much more valuable in order to make the play-offs) his production would drop off significantly. As well as his effort, I might add but it's besides my point. The point is that Shanahan this season showed almost exactly the same level and rate of production. So if you'd like to pensil him for the 2nd line duty - his production is not going to warrant it. I like Shany as a player and person off the ice(and I didn't lose my respect for getting compensation that he got - if someone was willing to pay it he shouldn't be blamed for taking it),but I don't think that Rangers should ask him to come back next season.

[cwgatti]

I wanted Sundin 2 years ago. I am convinced that he would have been a better acquisition than Gomez and Drury combined. But 2 years later I am not so sure. Sundin is still an ox, and he owns the puck down low. He could feed Jagr like a baby. Working deep in the offensive zone, no one on the Rangers comes close to Sundin's ability. I would take him over Shanny any day of the week. . . . .BUT, we gave Shanny almost $3mil. of next year's money for all of his great play this past season (sarcasm), so I would forget that idea.

[cwgatti]

With that said about Sundin, I would never say that he would be an automatic fit with Jagr. I was wrong about Gomez being a natural fit.

[LI Joe]

cwgatti - some of Shanny's bonus will hit this yrs cap (it seems like 1/2 per Dubi's response to an earlier question)